Financial Proposal: Wildfire DAO Request for Balancer Token (BAL) Governance Power Delegation

As an FYI: due to the nature of Vocdoni/Aragon Voice being censorship resistant and permissionless NO Aragon Voice vote can be taken down. Thus, another vote will just have to be posted in conjunction.

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Hi @keneeze.eth, thanks a lot for your proposal. The support has been tremendous, which seems to create a win-win situation. Best kind of proposals. I apologise for the late comment though :slight_smile:

I was just curious, are you offering a 50:50 split to other organisations you are collaborating with as well? OR does the split differ each time? Also, what are the parameters are you looking at while determining the split?

Also, can you tell us how the quarterly renegotiations will work?

CC: @Joan_Arus @AlexClay

Hello @lion917 Aragon is the first DAO we will be having this arrangement with.

We are primarily using 2 parameters to determine the split

  1. The size of Aragon’s Balancer Position, if Aragon increases its Balancer holdings the split would tilt in Aragon’s favour.

  2. Also at the end of every quarter Wildifire DAO would post a Google Sheet on the forum with all the revenue for the quarter and how it was split, we will gather community feedback on the fairness of the split considering the size of revenue, and factor that into the quarterly renegotiation.

The Quarterly renegotiation will follow the quarterly revenue and voting reports, the community and Wildifre will basically consider how Wildfire voted on behalf of Aragon, Bribe revenue and Aragon’s current veBAL balance size.
If the arrangement no longer serves Aragon or Wildfire we can initiate another proposal to amend the partnership.

i don’t totally get it = do we need $80k worth of balancer for a particular purpose in aragon? did we just get lucky and have exactly the right amount we need or is this kinda lazy and “well, it’s there, no need to do anything?”

if it’s a great investment should we have $300000 balance? or is it just amazing luck we got the right amount and it’s high fives around the circle? by way of ecosystem integration are the only KPIs here that we have a bigger pile of beans? i mean, $80k over at blossom labs has bought three code releases, and i’m not sure what this buys, other than “more”

beyond that no comment, i’m sure it’s a solid product etc etc…

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This is a great initiative! Is there a way for Aragon community members to be more proactively involved…also is there an actual need, would not want to crowd the table and create more work for the team

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Hello @BearBudget according to our proposal, we need 1 contact person to interface with directly ahead of every Balancer Improvement Proposal (BIP), the contact person would be function as a voice for Aragon and possibly convey the Balancer Community’s perspective on votes.
This way Wildfire is not making decisions without input from Aragon, my thought process is that you or anyone else who is interested in being the contact person should nominate themselves in this forum post thread when the proposal passes, I think this role should be compensated, but that is a discussion that is up to the Aragon Community itself.

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Thanks @keneeze.eth

Can you please share with us the exact threshold limits for balancer holdings, corresponding to the split percentage? Can you share the links to similar proposals in other communities (posted by wildfire) so that we can understand the industry-wide standards regarding the split :slight_smile:

Nonetheless, this is a great value proposition on your part. We are just researching the process and general split in these situations. Hence, we want to get a better idea.

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@lion917 As I said earlier this is the first time that Wildfire is having this arrangement with any DAO, so there are no proposals to reference from other communities.

Also there is currently no threshold limit agreed upon for Aragon’s future Balancer holdings, we are working with Aragon’s BAL current holdings, all future split renegotiations will be done in the open here in the forum if Aragon increases or decreases its Balancer position.

I am sorry that I currently cannot be of more help, but we felt it would be presumptuos to attempt to negotiate revenue splits for Aragon’s future BAL holdings without context from the ecosystem, the community and monitoring Bribe Round revenue over a quarter.

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Hey, of course. I think you are right. Just wanted to get more information. I love the proposal. Just wanted to know more about the split.

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“this is the first time that Wildfire is having this arrangement with any DAO, so there are no proposals to reference from other communities.”

great, lucky us.

@fartunov in general your criticisms are pretty solid. when you said that most cefi products can’t return more than 2% yield i was glad to have some clear thinking in the room. I’m not sure i understand a bullish position here?

@keneeze.eth your inability to assert “why 13K BAL” (vs 0 or 50K) is an obvious omission that speaks to a lack of preparedness.

At present my position is that this proposal was hastily prepared and lazily critiqued, please do better.

Hello @alibama I did not reply to your comment because I cannot justify Aragon’s BAL Holdings, the Finance Team is in charge of Treasury Diversification, I do not know why they chose to hold a certain amount BAL.

I know that the amount of BAL that Aragon holds can be used to create value, I think you should reach out to @Ricktik6 to discuss why Aragon holds a particular amount of BAL Tokens, calling this proposal hastily prepared is quite unfair and I think you should do better.

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Thanks for the reply -

in terms of engagement with the community this doesn’t do much to improve your case, right? either you can’t explain what 50k worth of BAL would do vs 0BAL (which doesn’t help me explain the units for evaluating your tools generally) or you’re not in sufficient communication with our finance team to have to addressed what seems like a super basic question and it makes me think you’re rushing this through.

I also want to make sure we’re talking about value or $$s. From my perspective Aragon is loaded with $$s, and could use more value. Hearing “we can make more $$s” right now seems almost like a distraction, given the issues we have shipping code.

That said if you are planning on providing a coded contractual arrangement (a dapp of some sort) and could include that in the deliverables = something sufficiently agnostic that other DAOs built on Aragon could plug in to their DAOs??

That would be the kind of opportunity I would get excited about - a proposal structured around helping everyone who uses Aragon’s tools, not just people who exercise the funds.

For reference I am here to support DAO creators, and do not claim to have any particularly deep knowledge about the past relationships built in the space. Maybe there is a lot going on under the surface I have not seen.

I can 100% say I haven’t heard anyone from the community asking about Wildfire DAO hidden hand or Balance integration in any discord channel ever. It has not come up once. I would say put some more time in to coming up with a stronger proposal that includes some technical and scalable relevance and ask for 3x the funding, ya know?

Hey @alibama,

I can jump in here for some context Aragon has BAL from previous liquidity pools. There is no proposal to purchase any BAL.

Not using assets that are currently under utilised and investigating how to generate yield on them would be a mistake for the long term.

From my understanding, they are not proposing Aragon donate the tokens but simply represent Aragon with the delegated tokens. Therefore the argument around a tech product simply does not make sense, if a proposal was put forward to build a project and the BAL was needed they would simply be undelegated and be sold or reallocated. If it is successful it means we have an early data point where we can consider increasing the holding as part of a wider yield strategy.

I see this as a great early experiment in delegating the tokens. From a value perspective allowing us to delegate and begin to be active in other DAOs & protocols is of ecosystem value on top of the $, whilst also not distracting the teams who should be shipping.

As for Balancer, it has been one of the core decentralises exchanges who Aragon have had a relationship with since the beginning.

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Thank you for providing context @AlexClay.

A short summary that will help answer your concerns @alibama :

  • We are not buying any BAL
  • We are experimenting with the current holdings to participate in meta-governance (which will become more and more important for Aragon)
  • It will generate an income stream with current holdings that are not utilized
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Hey Anson - appreciate you stepping in to be the voice in disagreement on this one.

On the question - “why 13K BAL” because that’s how much idle BAL Aragon holds.

Should it be more, maybe - it’s a top 3 DEX, their augmented bonding curve is the de-facto standard for a “fair” token launch, and the most widely adopted governance tool (Snapshot) spun out of there. There are probably many arguments to say we should hold less. Considering the size of the position, at this point, investing time and resources to evaluate a buy/sell decision would be a distraction.
You call it “lazy” - managing the treasury is an area where Aragon has fared better than most projects in the space. If you know someone who could do better, send them our way, we would love to help them scope out a proposal.

So the 13k BAL is a status quo, honestly not worth our time to challenge. Moving on to the proposal itself.

  • Risk: The proposal does not present additional risk compared to simply holding BAL. If you see technical risk (an area where you do have superior expertise) please flag it
  • Cost: The 80k is not being spent. It is being delegated (something that might not have been clear, based on your first comment). One can argue that operationalizing this proposal will incur some costs in terms of team time. Acquiring that operational experience, however, is arguably worth the time. The transaction costs in ETH are negligible compared to what the DAO is spending on initiatives with less defensible benefits. The profit share is certainly a cost, but it is incurred only if WildFire delivers value
  • Benefits: This is the first proposal we have ever seen that will potentially grow the treasury instead of taking money from it. It’s the first step of collaboration with a community of actual governance practitioners. Such collaboration makes a lot more sense than “working with” (paying) self-proclaimed governance experts - philosophers who will endlessly debate and deliberate the merits of one governance system vs another and virtue signal “decentralization” maximalism.

TLDR: This is by a massive margin one of the top two easiest proposals to support, second only to the EVM Crispr

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we’re gonna have some fun this year :slight_smile: maybe for bonus points we should trade off on which proposals to go after :wink: i’m going to bring a couple and i’ll see about sharpening the ax for ya early

i’m agnostic towards this proposal but glad to see the enthusiasm and certainly willing to ignore it generally… at some point i would like to get an accounting perspective from @Gabriela as to the actual cost of doing business like this and perhaps where the sweet spots are for scale of investment

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Hello,

As a long-time ANT holder, big Wildfire fan, but new Aragon community member, I’m excited to see the project opening up to working alongside other reputable DAOs specifically in verticals that it is not focused on. i.e. governance instead of tooling. Sounds like a great move to put these tokens (doing nothing) to use while also building a relationship. Looking forward to seeing how this moves forward.

Is there any update on this vote and next steps?

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The vote has passed, so it is approved from the DAO side.
Waiting to get approval from the AA side (as they hold currently the funds) to proceed.

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Hey hey, can we get a status update here :slight_smile:

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Thank you for bringing this up @fartunov
The necessary transactions are expected to be signed by this week.

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