Totally agree – got kind of depressed when I saw there’s no https://hack.aragon.org equivalent for Ethereum. It’s just crazy
@luis So I’ve been thinking about this a lot, and it’s becoming clearer and clearer that improving developer UX is essential. Aragon already does a great job of this with hack.aragon for documentation and tutorials, the Nest program to fund concrete projects, and the Flock teams that work on long term projects that benefit the ecosystem. This is awesome because it’s a clear upgrade path that supports projects as they grow.
As the Aragon platform scales, new user/developer onboarding is going to be critical. While there’s already the wiki and hack.aragon, I think that the new Auturk TPS apps will allow us to do even more:
- documentation, tutorials, and live DAO demos that showcase the power of new Aragon apps that emerge in the ecosystem (starting with Auturk TPS)
- games and hackathons where community members can collaboratively hack on and upgrade DAOs to earn prizes in ANT (maybe even some adversarial games to test attack vectors / bugs)
- a “wishlist” of projects that would benefit the Aragon ecosystem that developers can build to learn about Aragon and earn ANT in the process, potentially even graduating those projects to Nest grants and Flock teams
I’m starting to brainstorm ideas around this and call it The Coop. The idea is that it’s a place to incubate ideas so they can hatch in the Nest and join the Flock. Literally just came up with this yesterday, but I’m really excited about it! It’s a WIP, but if you have any thought on the above ideas or want to check out the website that would be awesome
Edit: WOW I litrally just read your post on dev ux again and you’re saying the same things and even used the metaphor! I swear I didn’t pull that from your post! lol It evolved from Aragon Cooperative => coop (for short) => The Coop (like a chicken coop that incubates eggs/ideas), but yeah glad we’re on the same page
- regarding “Authentic Stories of Success”: the Hatchery section of the website is a placeholder to address that
- regarding “Advocacy Headlamp”: the Help section is a start to gain feedback, but the workflow that @lkngtn designed in the Coop DAO Framework really addresses this with community governance and shared rewards. It’s a WIP/brainstorm and not a baked proposal, but the goal is to let the community learn and grow by doing, and the more work you do the more of a voice you have, so users/community members can help guide the whole thing.
- regarding “Homework Time”: The Coop
well someone has heard you Luis… have to say that the new www.ethereum.org web definitively represents an improvement, at least regarding the
Focus on developers point
that’s awesome burrrata, please consider that the AragonCoop purpose has already some background history that stills need to be refined, concreted and agreed among the Coop members, being and being an “idea incubator” is something that we haven’t discuss so far.
I don’t want to extend this post very much as it’s clearly an Out Of Topic, but please consider having a read (and propose discussions) on this thread Aragon Coop DAO - A Minimum Viable Manifesto (MVM) and its embedded links so we can lay the groundwork properly for agreeing on what’s ‘The-Coop’ and what is not. Of course, once the proper governance framework is structured and consensuated, you’d be able to perform whatever proposal you consider for re-defining the Coop scope and purpose. (BTW, great work you have done in the AragonCoop Github thanks a lot! @Julian and myself will make sure all of it will be taken into consideration when defining a proposal the AragonCoop governance framework and Bylaws)
@sepu85 The Aragon Cooperative had a meeting on Monday and agreed that the working groups would create proposals of what they would like the coop to do, then the working groups would present those proposals for feedback, and then the coop members would vote on them. I am following the process we agreed upon during that meeting. The Coop (WIP) is my vision of what I’d like to see in the world. It does not change anything within the Aragon Cooperative unless members choose to adopt it. It is a proposal which the group can accept, reject, or provide feedback on when it is presented. It is also an extension of the Aragon Cooperative Workflow Proposal that @lkngtn created, so clearly there is interest in the group to move in that direction. As was stated in the meeting neither you nor @julian have the authority to unilaterally govern the coop. The coop is governed by membership, and members govern by voting. Once proposals are ready coop members will vote on them to decide how to move forward. That’s what we agreed on. I look forward to seeing your proposal on what the coop should do.
Furthermore, regardless of the Aragon Cooperative’s decision on which proposals to move forward with I am free to move forward with my own projects however I want. I’m building what I want to see in the world and anyone is free to join me. If the Aragon Cooperative wants to get on board with that, cool. If not, that’s also great. I’ll still be building and exploring
I don’t think @burrrata means for this to be in the Aragon Coop. It seems to be something else.
It is confusing though.
Lol, just seen the above response
All gone a bit OT… (I’ll get mi coat:)
so I’ve asked that we all delete these posts from @sepu85’s above.
sure you are following what was agreed in the meeting! but without the proper context (this thread for example), the message can be very missleading.
I am not calling for having any authority over other people here, the beauty about Descentralization is that we all are the authority and everything can/shall be discussed, but again, there are forums already on that topic, pls don’t flood here!
This is very cool!
- What would be the relationship between this new site and the developer site? Is this more like an educational platform (with rewards, hackathons, etc.), while the dev docs are just docs?
- Have you considered a name that collides less with the Cooperative? Initially I thought they were the same thing when reading the post
Let’s break the
When you say the developer site, you’re referring to hack.aragon right?
If so, then I’m thinking that (Name TBD) it could be something that lives in parallel, but that’s more interactive and community based. There’s lots of great resoruces in hack.aragon and the broader ecosystem, and people can use that to build stuff, but then might want help getting refining their ideas or contributing to more than a Hello World app. A framework and community can help with that by creating open issues with bounties (see rewards section) from a “wishlist” (like these or these. It would also be fun to create challenges where people can compete/collaborate for prizes, but that’s just a dream. Anyways… for all this to happen there would need to be better docs around new Aragon apps, better user onboarding guides for DAOs, and some existing demos (like the Coop DAO Demo) to set an example and provide inspiration. These things can and probably will get done, eventually, by someone… but I thought I’d get the ball rolling. That’s what this is. I’m creating things I want to see in the world. Sorry if they’re a little disorganized, but it’s a WIP
Speaking of WIP, here’s the evolution of the project:
72hrs ago the Aragon Cooperative had a meeting to discuss the outcome of AGP-40 and decided that we needed to set a direction for the coop with clear goals and deliverables. A few working groups were formed and agreed to create proposals on what that might look like. I was the lead on OWL (ongoing work-based learning) and also a participant in the Coop Workflow Proposal. As I said in the meeting, I want to create things that allow the community to self organize with minimal overhead, dogfood the Aragon apps to showcase what they can do, and create a framework of incentives around community education so that more people use and build stuff with Aragon.
48hrs ago @lkngtn built a DAO to demo his ideas in Cooperative Workflow Proposal. I thought that was awesome so I started building docs to help explain how it works. I started in HackMD, but that was too clunky. Then tried Gitbook, but it’s not very collaborative. Then I discovered Docusaurus. After playing around with Docusaurus, it became clear that distinct siloed piles of documents is silly. The whole point of DAOs and Aragon is to create communities. You can’t create a community around docs. Docs are important, but only if people read them. With that in mind, Docusaurus has lots of great features built into it’s template that allows for social and technical integration to create a dynamic ecosystem around a project. This is perfect for The Coop because our goal is to support Aragon community members creating cool things they want to see in the world via Aragon apps. This requires social engagement/sharing, education/docs/onboarding (docs), and demos/tutorials/bounties (TPS GitHub integration). The Coop does all that.
24 hrs ago it was clear that Docusaurus was awesome so I pivoted towards building a (free) website for the Aragon Cooperative that would be more dynamic and interactive than just docs. I wanted to build something that would make it easier for people to find information and engage with the Aragon Cooperative. The Aragon Cooperative could then fill the website with whatever content they wanted. Since we are in the process of creating proposals for how the organization should move forward after AGP-40, I filled it with content that reflects the proposal I wanted to see (a combination of the Coop Workflow Proposal and some brainstorming discussions and OWL).
Since then, members of the Aragon Cooperative (really just @julian and @sepu85) are giving me pushback even though I’m following the very processes they defined and agreed to in the Aragon Cooperative meeting. This is frustrating, and I’m no longer enthusiastic about volunteering my time unless the broader Aragon Cooperative signal that value my contributions (@lkngtn is the Aragon Cooperative DAO equipped to use the signalling app?). That being said, I still love Aragon and DAOs and want to keep building and moving forward. I forked my own project and am now exploring taking it in a different direction. As I started doing research on what that might look like, I came across @luis’s post on dev UX and it reminded me about this thread talking about dev UX, so I thought I’d share the idea. Here we are.
I agree that the naming collision is a problem. I opened an issue yesterday to fix that. It’s a WIP, but originally this project was intended to be a proposal for the Aragon Cooperative so the name made sense. If Aragon Cooperative community members signal that they value my contributions, I’ll keep working on them and submit a proposal. If the Aragon Cooperative community members vote that they like this idea then it can become part of the Aragon Cooperative. If Aragon Cooperative community members vote that they do not like this idea, then of course it would be required to change the name immediately! As is, it doesn’t really matter because the Coop is an autonomous organization managed by members who make decisions via voting. There’s nothing wrong with building a side project and presenting it as an option for the group to consider. In GitHub terms, it’s an Issue that might become a PR, and might get merged if the project maintainers want to. The Aragon Coop members are in control of this process.
I came here to empower freedom by creating tools for decentralized governance at the speed of software. I think that’s what I’m doing. If not, please let me know
Let’s break the
Not sure what you meant here. Is this another reference to the naming collision, or something else?
Wow. Are we really doing this.
I thought we were getting on with it.
This is cool though.
Maybe move this conversation to its own thread.
This does have a link to the whole eth thing tho’ (IMO)
but yeah, +1 own thread.
Maybe worth saying I deleted my posts before, 'cos something’s just don’t need be around (& that’s ok too). Distracting.
Onwards… agree, let’s make something ahppen
(I wrote more earlier, not sure where it’s gone - tried to paste into less posts. Never as good 2nd time around)
We’ve started today, a few hours in.
Working well, really into it.
Made nice little piece
I understand some of this though, it’s amazing. Done a real days work today, with meaning.
All we’re asking for is to fulfil the opportunity that was mandated to us.
Serious about all this, it matters.
Operating in real border(less) territory too, exhilarating.
Props to all (& thanks)
I missed this 1st time round - think requires a public response…
I’m truly sorry if you’ve felt restricted by any of our actions.
It is part of our responsibility to the coop in considering safe, secure process in progression, as well as following the agp mandate (and not spinning out into a hundred directions, esp. considering our limited resources).
I think the work you’re doing is fascinating so far, appreciate the energy and enthusiasm. That some of our work will appear to be moving too slow for your preference seems inevitable. I admit to being cautious and careful - and protective too. That the coop’s potential impact, purpose, as well as health and wellbeing evidently already really matters to people, is something we should all celebrate, and build upon.
Equally though, I’m not sure what this pushback actually is. Personally we’ve never had any kind of fractious conversation that I can find in our limited interactions?
As has been discussed as a kind of modus operandi on the keybase chat, we verify not trust. The other big one being ‘consensus is hard’
If I’ve caused you offense by my earlier post above, I’m sorry.
It was intended light-heartedly and I’d hoped adding some humour may defuse the situation - let’s not take ourselves tooo seriously eh. (some self-depreciation is useful imo)
I look forward to us working together in more communal (&cooperative) spirit. Please feel free to reach out so we can work these things through together, in advance of reaching seeming conflict. Because I’m sure we can
Cool I appreciate that.
My frustration is was that you were providing feedback/pushback on my proposal before even presenting your own and also before I presented it to the Cooperative as a proposal. My only goal in sharing my WIP here on the forum was because I was excited about something I thought was cool and I thought @luis might think it was cool too. That’s it. I didn’t think it would be such a big deal…
Looks like now the Coop DAO has been upgraded to handle signalling. Also regular meetings/check-ins are going to be established. Hopefully this helps to minimize confusion/frustration around the Coop’s processes and headaches like this will not be a recurring problem moving forward
Guys, this isn’t even remotely related to the original topic in the thread, can you move the discussion elsewhere? Thanks!
Ok, apologies for this.
We’ve been carrying on this discussion within our coop keybase group since these posts. Sorry it spilled over into here, miscommunication really. Sorted now