Draft Vote Text For AN DAO Transfer of Funds

@AlexClay adding 0 months to question 5 feels like making the whole situation even worse no (including the fact that contracts have 2 month notice period)? Why not 6, 9 and 12?

That is additional months after the fund transfer, so at the moment there is 0 which is fund transfer 30th November eg the vote could be February for the fund transfer and 9 months runway, this is not a date that is included as a option at the moment.

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No, that qualifies as “simple majority” only in a dual choice question. If there are more than two options to choose from, it is by definition an “absolute majority”. @eaglelex noted above that the Charter is drafted with dual choice votes in mind. I therefore think it’s only reasonable to make all votes dual choice. Let me address your comments/suggestions question-by-question:

Question 1 - What structure would you prefer govern the Treasury and the ANT token contract?

  • Option 1: Delegative ANT Voting (as described here)
  • Option 2: Aragon Association (AA) as a legal wrapper for the Aragon Network (AN) DAO (as described here)

Unless someone objects, this question can be considered finalized.

Question 2 - If Option 1 in Question 1 were to be implemented, would you agree to allowing ANT holders to become voting members of the AA? (Under such an arrangement, the AA would not control the Treasury and the ANT token contract but ANT holders who become members of the AA would have limited liability protection and could vote on decisions to use the AA as a legal proxy for the AN DAO, where necessary.)

  • Yes
  • No

I understand where your suggestion on Question 2 is coming from but I personally like @joeycharlesworth’s suggestion better because it provides the DAO with a more nuanced view of the voters’ preference. Perhaps you can clarify why you think this question is too complicated for voters to understand or how it would result in a “double negative”?

Question 3 - If Option 2 in Question 1 were to be implemented, would you agree to keeping the Treasury and control of the ANT token contract within the AA while also allowing ANT holders to become voting members of the AA?

  • Yes
  • No

I don’t see a problem in addressing this in a separate vote so, unless someone objects, we can remove this question from the current vote (even though it would be a useful piece of info to have).

Question 4 - If Option 1 in Question 1 were to be implemented, which date would you support as the soft deadline for transferring the Treasury and control of the ANT token contract to the AN DAO and implementing a delegative ANT voting system?

  • November 30th, 2022
  • February 28th, 2023

Unless someone objects, this question can be considered finalized.

Question 5 - If Option 1 in Question 1 were to be implemented, would you agree to extending the AA and AL runway beyond November 30th, 2022?

  • Yes
  • No

Question 6 - If Yes was the winning option in Question 5, how long should the runway be extended (beyond the chosen date, funding would be allocated through a delegative ANT voting system, as described here)?

  • Until February 28th, 2023
  • Until May 31st, 2023

I understand that you’re suggesting combining questions 5 and 6 into a multiple choice question. However, as noted above, the current Charter doesn’t provide guidance on multiple choice questions. I would therefore recommend sticking with two separate dual choice questions. Definitely open to suggestions on the exact phrasing if folks feel the text above is difficult to understand.

Question 7 - Do you agree to changing the quorum for ANT governance votes from 0.5% to 0.3%?

  • Yes
  • No

Question 8 - Do you agree to changing the quorum for ANT governance votes from 0.5% to 0.1%?

  • Yes
  • No

Again, I understand you’re suggesting combining Questions 7 and 8 into a single multiple choice question. But in that case more than 50% in support of the winning option is not a simple majority. It’s by definition an absolute majority which is not something the Charter is clear on. I strongly recommend avoiding ambiguity when it comes to following the existing Charter because, as @lee0007 correctly pointed out, acting otherwise would seriously undermine the legitimacy of the whole process.

@joeycharlesworth @eaglelex and others with detailed knowledge of the Charter, can you please provide clear guidance on how the vote questions should be structured.

ops… stupid me… thanks for the clarification @mlphresearch

Ok agree with you, many thanks for responding, I was hoping we could take an optimistic view on some of the points but agree to avoid any ambiguity in the vote.

Happy with your suggestions, I still think Question 6 should be months and not set dates to avoid the possibility of issues of deployment affecting funding if it is agreed.

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How about this:

Question 6 - If Yes was the winning option in Question 5, how long should the runway be extended after transferring the Treasury from the AA to the AN DAO (beyond the chosen date, funding would be allocated through a delegative ANT voting system, as described here)?

  • 3 months
  • 6 months

In a November 30th, 2022 implementation scenario, this would correspond to February 28th, 2023 (9 month from now) and May 31st, 2023 (12 months from now), respectively. Does that make sense?

I hope more people will find the time to comment on this thread :slight_smile:

Hi guys, jumping in here. The charter has not been drafted for multiple-choice votes i.e. only for yes or no. In my opinion the >50% support of the participating votes in mandatory in the Charter and cannot be changed. We would use the Swiss proven approach, however, where people have the following option to vote:

  • Voting Question 1:voters can vote yes or no for both initiatives (yes/yes; yes/no; no/yes; or no/no)

  • Voting Question 2: If both initiatives reach the >50% support; people can vote whether they prefer initiative 1 or initiative 2 - here a no voter may prefer initiative 1 or initiative 2, even though initially he voted “no” for both.

Such approach would fit with the Charter.

Is it possible to have dual choice questions where the two options are not Yes and No but something else (a la Question 1, Question 4, Question 6, etc.)? If you’d advise against that in light of the existing Charter, it’s possible to rephrase everything into a Yes/No question, which would of course result in more questions to answer, but at least there would no ambiguity when it comes to the Charter.

This looks good to me. It should be noted that multiple choice questions have been used in Voice Votes previously with more than 2 answer options (Ex: Aragon Voice). The results were not subsequently disputed so I do believe there is a precedent for that approach (even if the charter is badly worded / ambiguous). In short, would go with whatever format is most understandable to voters.

I’m of the opinion that, in this particular case, dual choice questions are best because (1) it unambiguously abides by what’s written in the existing Charter, (2) interpreting the answers is as straightforward as it gets (the winning option will have more than 50% of participating ANT by definition, which is also what the Charter explicitly says), and (3) the results would be maximally informative because each voter will be able to express their preferences regardless of which of the two alternative scenarios referenced in Question 1 finds more support.

@AlexClay Can you update the OP and add a note at the very top so that people who haven’t been following the discussion can see what the vote text would look like, as things stand? Assuming no major objections/suggestions by EOD tomorrow, it sounds like voting could be opened before June 2nd, as initially scheduled. Of course, if anyone feels that there still some important kinks to work out, I don’t think delaying the vote a couple of days would change much either.


On a more general note, I think the discussion above will be super helpful should the DAO decide to update the Charter.

I have just updated it @mlphresearch

That’s not the correct set of questions :slight_smile: To avoid creating more confusion, I’ve shared the correct list with you via PM (EDIT: it’s also visible in earlier comments in this thread).

Everyone, once @AlexClay has confirmed updating the OP, please make sure to carefully review the questions in case you have any final suggestions/clarifications.

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Apologies Updated

Having spoken with Placeholder - The proposed vote will go live at 12 UTC on Friday the 3rd of June. Please have your ANT ready by that point

I understand that this is the way things should go forward to “adhere to the Charter”. Meanwhile, I recognize that there is no good logical reason beyond the quoted above. This is yet another example in a long sequence of incidents indicating how the current charter is purposefully overcomplicating things (not going to speculate, whether it’s due to incompetence, malicious intent, lack of empathy, or other motivation)

Despite having a wealth of context (both because of time invested in discussions and holding roles both in the AA and in the AN DAO) it is difficult to map my preference for a future state to how I should vote on the web of options available.

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I think the questions have gotten much more confusing by making them binary and there are a bunch of potential vote result combinations that would lead to either an invalid/impossible situation and potentially require a further vote or disambiguation rules to clarify. I think that given all the attention this vote will get, having the clearest questions and using multiple choice is a must. If it took me a while to figure out what I would need to vote to express my preferred outcome, I can’t imagine how confused people who haven’t followed the conversations will be.

The current AN DAO charter has nothing to do with this vote and therefore shouldn’t dictate the question structure (specially if it is to the detriment of this important vote)

This is a purely signaling vote in which ANT holders will express their priority for what they think the Aragon Association should do. The AN DAO has no explicit power over the AA so therefore there’s no reason for this vote to follow the directions in the charter. We should go for the clearest possible questions that can only lead to valid results.

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Perhaps you can elaborate on this a bit because, essentially, everything boils down to Question 1. Questions 2-5 are simply clarifying some details should Option 1 in Question 1 get implemented. If you’re finding it difficult to answer these questions, perhaps you can clarify the reasons and recommend a better way of phrasing them?

With regard to the function/importance of the Charter, I defer to anyone with more context/knowledge of the matter. If it’s actually not necessary to follow the Charter in the context of this signalling vote and there’s broad agreement that the current questions are not clear enough, then I’m seeing two options:

  1. Rephrase the existing questions, perhaps by making all clarifying questions (Questions 2-5) multiple choice. In that case, a decision needs to be made on how to establish the winning option. Either the option with most votes wins, or the option with more than 50% of ANT participating wins (absolute majority). Here’s a hypothetical example of a multiple choice vote result, just so people understand the implications (in this example, 60% voted against Option 1, i.e. Option 1 doesn’t actually have majority support; the only way to establish everyone’s preference between Option 1 and 2 would be to run a second vote with only these two options):
  • Option 1: 40%
  • Option 2: 35%
  • Option 3: 25%
  1. Drop some clarifying questions, to be decided in additional votes, as needed.

On a more general note, this discussion highlights the importance of rules about the rules. By unambiguously establishing a distributed governance/decision-making mechanism that everyone understands, the DAO can save a lot of time/confusion and operate efficiently. I’m hopeful that this is what the planned update of the foundational doc of the AN DAO will achieve.

I look forward to everyone’s suggestions on finalizing the current set of vote questions. I’m sure we’ll get there eventually :slight_smile:

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