How about the 4-5 weeks its been since the AA was asked for transparency?
Or any clarity to the AA “2mm in costs/fees” that has been over a week since asked multiple times?
AA documentation has continued to be withheld
I could go on but it seems rather pointless because all the proof is there. All the while @Joan_Arus continues to comment on this interestingly timed grant proposal while ignoring other questions
The 300k number seems as a blatant attempt to siphon -
- 300k is exactly how much the DAO currently has / there is already a huge budget for development
- random forum accounts joining the exact time they comment support…?
-only current team member support elsewhere.
Questions need to be answered before the DAO grants anymore funds towards development which the burn rate on it already is overinflated:
Revenue is currently terrible compared to burn
There is far too many devs on the project as is - the saying less is more rings true in development as the leading teams in the space (uniswap as referred prior - 7 devs?).
The output compared to budget and team size does not seem to be one that is getting any bang for buck.
If anything there should be a budget reduction.
There has been no proof that warrants this grant to be completely brutally honest and I will not be supporting this.
I see your point here, although I don’t think that these approaches have to be viewed as one or the other.
I’m willing to build plugins that fit my use case for free because 1. I’ve got a direct need today that I need to build for and 2. I’m technical and can develop a plugin myself
Many non-technical folks approach Aragon with the intention of building a DAO for their community (and I’m sure this number will increase significantly as more folks learn about DAOs and their potential). For those folks it would be great to be able to incentivize the development of plugins that could fit more general use cases – maybe there’s a more direct feedback loop here where folks can vote on a wishlist of plugins and that way developers that don’t have any tie to the projects that will use those plugins can still help to develop them.
We should be fostering growth by increasing the projects using the base tools for Aragon.
We both agree on that one!
How many Projects use aragon now?
If you refer to Aragon Client / aragonOSm you can check that info here. Projects such Lido, Decentraland, NFTX, API3, Aavegotchi, DappNode,Zora, Giveth probably are the most known ones. For the new stack, you can see updated stats for Ethereum and Polygon here.
so 211 new DAOs created and only 26 with a balance greater than 0?
How many of the 26 are non Aragon related DAOs?
And on the old Stack forgive me if I am reading this incorrectly 20 DAO’s over 100k in TVL?
Not favorable statistics if we are being honest with ourselves
7 posts were merged into an existing topic: Clarity on Aragon Finances over the years
*AntHolder lol… anyways When the number of the grant is the exact dollar amount of the DAO funds, it comes off as such!
Then comments of “lets change it to 299” from yourself - make it come off even worse.
As I stated multiple times I shall be voting no! But thanks for the heads up.
Will continue to participate in the forum
Hell no. IMO we should shoot much higher. Please note that Aragon Client / OS was discontinued after the departure of Aragon One team by end of 2020.
hello I like the idea of a grants program but have a few questions!
- I read in the replies that we are spending 12 million a year at the moment, is this true?
- Is aragon osx generating revenue at the moment, or is there a plan to generate revenue?
I see both sides of the argument, facilitating useful plugin development is a positive for OSX especially as the developers focus on bigger-picture items, yet if it is truly the case that development is costing 12 million a year without revenue, it is very difficult to accept a proposal that is asking for more spending.
Maybe one solution that could make more sense to not create a separate DAO for this? announce the grant program and if any developers wish to request a grant they can make a proposal here, and tokenholders can approve on a case-by-case basis depending if they consider the r/r to be positive.
Mate, let’s cut the crap yes? Otherwise every freacking post ends up in the same dumpster.
If you are surprised that I actually spend time reading and interacting in posts that were brought forward from real community members that I know and trust, who come forward with ideas on how to reach strategic goals, as opposed to answering to you, well, don’t know how to cut it to you clearer.
There’s no sybil-protection mechanism in this forum, for all I know you could be claiming you are ANT holder and be the same dude in 10 different accounts. So please excuse me if I don’t pay the same amount of attention to your messages, and please, stop spamming every thread with unrelated requests.
And I get it. You want number go up, and every $ in expenses is a $ that can’t go to ANT holders (assuming it was even possible). You think that expenses are too high. That is all fine. Vote against the current proposal.
But brah… stop pretending you actually “care” about the project, cause you know you don’t, and I know you don’t. Same goes to all the new frens over here who are soooo interested in the health of the Aragon Project (who all joined in May-23). It will be easier for everyone.
Information on AA’s expenses for 2022 and H1 2023 will come in Q3, after the GA approves the Annual Accounts.
I understand this is something we’re all passionate about everyone. However, can we please keep the conversation limited to the topic at hand?
This conversation is about a Grant Program to support developers. As @Anthony.Leuts said, if you dont support it, feel free to vote no.
However attempting to hint that this is anything other than that isnt leading anywhere productive. This is simply Aragon attempting to support and reward those who are contributing to the Aragon Ecosystem (and in turn the rest of the ecosystem as well)
Appreciate everyone keeping things civil.
would this not then fall under the budget already allocated for that proposal and guild?
I agree, these things are not mutually exclusive - i just think the timing might be a bit off, and it would be better to revisit a grants program once the foundation is solid. I personally would like to see more adoption first, what plugins do people even make? It is hard to see the demand as the adoption is quite limited. We risk the inefficiency of funding plugins that never get used.
Fair point, anecdotally there’s a lot of discussion in the discord channel around real use cases where a plugin is needed. Maybe this could be a starting point for a “wishlist” that can help guide the grants program and alleviate some of the concern around ROI.
Agreed, Thats why i think a better strategy is to wait for Aragon to be on more chains, and try and get people to use the infra - from there they will make requests of what they want, they wont know what they want until they start using it!
Seems like a great idea to me! For sure I am biased as an Aragon OSx developer, however this also means that I can give my view on the proposal from that angle.
I do see a lot of people in the Discord asking for custom plugins, which they are unfortunately not able to develop themselves. An example of plugins I see requested often is using an existing ERC721 collection (or subset) for governance and an investment DAO plugin. These both seem like ideal candidates for the Grant Program to me. Currently there are really few plugins on Aragon, which makes it unusable for a lot of cool projects in case you are not or have no smart contract developer and is a shame as it doesn’t showcase yet how flexible Aragon OSx is and the possibilities that brings.
A point of critique would be that currently the developer has to provide the tools to create and interact with a DAO that contains the plugin. Possibly this Grant Program would be more effective after this can be done more easily. Then again the plugins themselves will be compatible smart contract wise anyhow, so you would not lose much, only that they will not be 100% user friendly until such tools are in place. However the “Modules” part of this proposal seems to indicate to me that creating these tools will also be part of the Grant Program, in which case I see this as something that should be done asap, to facilitate new plugin development now that the iron is still hot.
No unfortunately not. There is some budget for external hackathons and events but not for an ecosystem grants program.
Re: your other comment about timing. Remember this is more focused on OSx not the App, and OSx is more ready for growth as it’s ahead of the App. An example of a requested plugin that only came in a few days ago is a “rage quit” plugin. With Syndicate closing down their front-end for investment DAOs this leaves a gap in the market. We don’t have the time to build this but maybe a DAO wanting to move on to Aragon does. This is just an example. As for deploying on more chains, this could be something incentivesed as well! As Plopmenz describes at the bottom (he’s an active developer in our community) people are coming into the discord asking for custom plugins for their DAOs. By the way, this is a request for funding for this program. It doesn’t mean the program launches tomorrow. It can start after a few things are completed to make it more successful. I mentioned above but it was a guild KR to get this proposal up before Q2 ended and so we are sticking by that. There’s no question implementing it in the best conditions is a priority! Thanks for your feedback.
Fun timing we just put this out : What's being built on Aragon OSx? Spring Review
I did not expect this to blow up and there are a bit too many parallel conversations to answer everyone so apologies if some points get lost. I will try to stick to the relevant points:
- The idea is to incentivize the creation of new and useful things. We will absolutely see DAOs building tools to solve their own problems. Making sure that there plugins/modules are accessible to other organizations is essential, yet the original builder has no incentive to do so - its a tool that is at best tangential to their DAOs objective.
- Absolutely agree its early in the modularity of Aragon’s own stack. This is why the grant facility is $300k not $3M. it is also the reason we are trying to keep it focused.
- On the idea of keeping the discussions in the forum - I honestly think putting every builder through this grueling forum for up to 30k conditional upon delivery is cruel. Also having explored what has happened across the ecosystem we’ll risk attracting teams good at writing proposals and rallying political support, rather than teams good at building
- Thankfully the discussion about guilds budgets has been forked so I will not reopen it here. Dropping everything we do to just deliberate on that point will benefit no-one. The proposal will go up in the delay app after the minimum required 7 days in the forum (to avoid it being vetoed).
The only serious feedback requiring a change that has been received so far is to adjust the required amount. Hopefully we’ll get some serious and justified suggestions on what would be a reasonable adjustment by Tuesday
I believe implementing a grant program for Aragon OSx is an excellent strategy to boost its adoption. I have been exploring this new protocol for a few months now, and I’m surprised that it isn’t receiving more attention. In our case, we see this protocol as a potential game changer for DAOs, which is why we have chosen to build a product on top of it.
Introducing a grant program not only encourages adoption but also supports other projects in getting started and expediting their development on the Aragon platform. I think it’s a fantastic idea. I have previously participated in grant programs for other protocols, and it has always been beneficial. It allows me to contribute to the growth of the protocols while also providing an incentive for my work.
Additionally, apart from financial support, I believe it would be valuable to include some form of mentoring or code review process to ensure the security of products created using Aragon plugins. Security audits can be prohibitively expensive for small projects, so any assistance in that area would be greatly appreciated.
Overall, I fully support the idea of a grant program for Aragon OSx. It not only encourages adoption but also provides resources and support to help projects thrive. Including mentoring or code review aspects would further enhance the value of the program by addressing security concerns.
I work presently on a personal project called DBrains (for Decentralized Brains or DAO Brains) that aims at developing a platform launching projects developed fully collaboratively by DAOs of developers/entrepreneurs (https://dbrains.vercel.app/). Central to the system is the monitoring of contribution to achieve fairness in remuneration. A specific tokenomics based on NTT (non transferable tokens) allows the control of investments into the project and a fair remuneration for the builders. Unlike most of the entrepreneurs in the web3 ecosystem, I am not interested in making a lot of money with this project, I am more interested in building a system useful to a lot of people, and allowing a lot of people to earn money fairly. To me the blockchain’s main purpose is to provide tools to allow communities to self-organize. A DAO will be associated with every project launched on the platform. I plan to use Aragon (OSX, SDK, and Design system) for the creation and management of DAOs. Aragon’s modular design is perfect for this, it will allow flexibility and reliability/security of the system. We can envision many types of plugins and development to adjust to the need of the variety of projects launched. I think this project is a great use-case for Aragon DAO’s framework. Receiving a grant from Aragon to support this project would help me build a system which will promote and further develop Aragon’s system tremendously. I am working now on laying the foundation of it (Main DAO and basic proposals system) before opening the system to more people. Once the system of evaluation of contribution and remuneration in NTT will be in place, the system will further be developed by the community from the ground up along the principles of democracy, fairness and openness, pillars of the platform. The 2023 global dao hackathon was probably a success for Aragon promoting the framework among people interested in building DAOs. In the same way, providing grants to projects that plan to use the Aragon framework and further develop it has a lot of meaning. Again, DAO builders will invent new use cases, and are also helpful in providing useful feedback to Aragon’s system, helping testing, debugging and improving the framework constantly. They are indirectly working for Aragon. Providing grants is a way to reward the best potential contributors to Aragon’s framework. Beside grant, Aragon is a complicated system, and all the efforts of the team to provide support for the users/builders of the framework are invaluable. People like Abu Ussama (Aaron), Juliette Chevalier are doing a great job and I am looking forward to continuing working with them. Thanks!