AGP-106 Discussion: Develop Aragon Chain

This thread is for discussing the Develop Aragon Chain AGP intended to create an interoperable Aragon Chain on Cosmos or Polkadot.

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We (ChainSafe) will be releasing the feasibility study shortly, at which point we are looking for community feedback. If you have any questions before then feel free to ask away :slight_smile:

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I really like this idea! I do think off-chain offers the opportunity to fix UX issue, slowness,…

Just to be clear, this would be an alternative layer 1 blockchain (akin to Ethereum mainnet).

:o so how would this work? Would it be a Either/Or situation (the DAO would be deployed on one or the other) or would we store data on either chain according to their nature? IIRC tendermints are very promising and fast but less resistant to majority attacks.

Yes, DAOs would run on either Ethereum or Aragon Chain. We are working on ways for a DAO on one chain to control an Agent instance on the other chain.

IIRC, Tendermint supports up to 1/3 of stake being byzantine

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Regarding the deliverables, since the feasibility study isn’t public it’s hard to evaluate what exactly is being funded in this proposal. As-is, I recommend that this proposal be modified to only fund the production of the spec, and then once it’s more clear exactly what the Aragon Chain will look like then the community can make an informed decision in a future ANV about whether or not to fund the actual development and launch of the chain.

We are planning to release it today/tomorrow ahead of the deadline! We are just performing some edits :slight_smile:

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From github: @Igorbarinov
You can use our setup for your own EVM chain on DPOS with POA’s stack

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What are the plans pertaining to privacy on the Aragon Chain? On Ethereum, great progress is being made on this side so I expect that sooner or later it will be possible to “decently” anonymise ETH & ERC-20 tokens.

If and when Aragon becomes important enough, one of the major use cases are oppressed organisations that couldn’t exist anywhere else, (e.g. a DAO that would manage funding of HK defence against China). If that DAO becomes big enough, there will be sophisticated attempts to find out who are the people managing the DAO and more broadly, who are the ANT token holders.

Thanks!

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From github: @Igorbarinov
You can use our setup for your own EVM chain on DPOS with POA’s stack

First and foremost, the tooling that POA has created has shown a lot of promise (I was at ETHDenver, xDai was a great way to pay for food!). As you can tell, the feasibility study was written between Polkadot and Cosmos, for a few reasons:

  1. It’s not just about the EVM, that is just a bonus since it allows for contracts to be migrated with ease :slightly_smiling_face:

  2. By utilizing one of these two protocols it gives access to a wide variety of other toolsets that are unique to each of them (cosmos-SDK, substrate, etc… offer a high-level of customizability)

  3. PoS vs DPoS, mainly put - governance mechanism for choosing your validator sets can be less decentralized (what if all the validators end up being from the Association or Aragon One?). Ultimately, its important to mimic the decentralization that Ethereum has, anyone can join and mine, similarly anyone can join and validate, DPoS just doesn’t offer that. Cosmos already has a fairly large user base of staking infrastructure (pools, individuals, etc…), and Polkadot from our knowledge will have the same upon launch (Kusama has shown this already).

  4. Ultimately we were given a set of questions by Aragon, and were requested to create an unbiased report between the two networks (since we are very much involved in both). We handed the report over, and they made a decision based on the information provided.

Does this mean we can’t use POA at all? Absolutely not, blockscout is EVM compatible, and does the job (we interface with it for our work on Ethereum Classic). We haven’t written a full specification for the Aragon Chain yet, ultimately we didn’t find out the decision to go with Ethermint until well after we handed off the report. The beautiful part of all this, is that we have a large design space to work with, and a lot of things have yet to be finalized.

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Hey, after basically starting the discussion on Twitter, I would like to learn more about the advantages of the tooling you mention.
Does it have big advantages over Ethereum?
The second question would be - why is a not in Cosmos integrated Aragon Chain any different regarding threat to centralization than a sidechain to Ethereum? As far as I have read from @jorge’s comment, the node infrastructure is running separated from Cosmos.

Do you mind linking the tweet in mention?