3rd Party Documentation (and incentives for community contributions)

Where?

I’ve used them. They’re good and they work. They should be published.

The Rust community does this with their forum, but their main focus is the programming language itself. Aragon is much more dynamic, and as such the forum represents a much more dynamic set of interests. Also, having #dev-help, the wiki, hack.aragon, and the forum for technical related things might be a bit much. Personally I want everything in one place so that I can be as lazy as possible, quickly find answers/resources, and get stuff done. I don’t want to have to cross reference multiple locations every time I have a question.

A “Community written guides” section would totally work. It would make it clear that community contributions are welcome and encouraged. That being said, the wiki also has a development section. Seems kind of redundant? There should be 1 place people go to for information about building/using Aragon DAOs. Simple, easy to share, easy to contribute to, easy to manage.


Incentives

Yup! Already talking to them about creating an Aragon app that could be integrated into DAOs. Their thinking was that the Agent app could be the founder of a Colony, and then the DAO could manage it that way. Details TBD and it would require some integrations into their wallet infrastructure.

Also talking to the SourceCred team about integrating that system into Aragon DAOs.SourceCred essentially creates a “contribution graph” of people who contribute to a project and then dispenses tokens accordingly. This could help automate contributions to the forum or PRs to various repos. It’s in super early beta, but the da0 is looking at building that into their Aragon DAO as well

Autark has awesome apps that would be super useful here, but they won’t be ready for mainnet for another few months

This seems like the most promising immediate solution, but first there would have to be documentation explaining the documentation bounties/rewards process lol! As is, navigating the community funding DAO is confusing unless you’re already engaged in the forum on a daily basis and were around when it was created. The UX needs to be improved greatly. Perhaps we should create an updated post explaining what the CFDAO is, how it works, and how to contribute. Then that could be stickied in a “CFDAO category” just for CFDAO proposals/discussions.

Then there could be a non sticked post in that category explaining the community docs/tutorials process and expected rewards one could earn for contributing. This could be in the style of the bug bounties: not as specific as bounties on the Projects app, but not as vague as allocations; something that gives the reader a general idea of what they can expect and leaves details up to the bounty manager or community

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I’m currently looking into the creation of a bridge between https://sourcecred.io and Aragon. The idea being that you would have a node which computes sourcecred “cred” based on discourse posts and/or github contributions, and then either mints reputation directly or requests the approval of new reputation based on a vote. I’m fairly optimistic this is something that could be created fairly quickly. The the cred would be computed and then distributed using an approach that is similar to a merkle airdrop.

I think it would make a lot of sense to experiment with rewarding contributions to wiki.aragon.org and hack.aragon.org repos with reputation tokens based on “cred”, and perhaps allocate some amount of funds which could be distributed to those reputation holders using 1Hive’s redemptions app.

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You’re completely right. We’re in the middle of a big Aragon Wiki re-design/ re-organization and have planned to remove the development section.

[1] https://github.com/aragon/aragon-wiki/pull/499
[2] https://github.com/aragon/aragon-wiki/pull/480

Then that could be stickied in a “CFDAO category” just for CFDAO proposals/discussions.

This is another thing I’ve been thinking about and mentioned in another thread: in conjunction with the wiki re-organization I am also working on a forum re-organization to bring the forum up to date with how people are actually using the forum as the current structure is quite out of date and hasn’t changed much since back when the forum was originally intended just for research.

That said I think the original CFDAO announcement post is actually quite straightforward for explaining how to participate. I think @anteater struck a good balance between making the post detailed but also low-barrier to participation. What could improve is, as you say, making it more visible. Giving the CFDAO its own section / subsection in the forum would be helpful here.

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Awesome!

Looking forward to the wiki/hack re-organization. Are you thinking to have a “community contributions /3rd party docs” section in each of the main sections (aragonPM, aragonOS, aragonCLI, etc…), or to just have a single “community contributions” section where people can just add anything as long as it’s technically correct? Also, it would be great if there was an “Apps” section that had info and documentation (overview and install/user guides) on every Aragon app in the app store.

The original CFDAO post is good, but it’s hard to find. Having a dedicated CFDAO tag and category would help greatly with this.

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My work is exclusively on the Aragon Wiki at wiki.aragon.org. I will not be touching the hack.aragon.org site.

I agree it’d be nice if docs for each app were easy to find. Right now frontend app documentation for the “core” apps that are shipped with each default template are located at help.aragon.org, but there is not a canonical place to find documentation for other apps in the App Center. This has been discussed before during the All Devs calls for example but we haven’t come to any final conclusion about where non-“core” app docs should live. At the very least, we could add a docs section to the App Center listing page and require all submissions to have a link to documentation of the app. Right now, if there is any documentation at all, it usually lives in the GitHub repo for the app in question.

Well if we’re removing the developers section on the wiki, there where is that information going? You’re not just removing useful information right?

Also, IF the place for community documentation is hack.aragon and NOT the wiki, then who else needs to be involved in this conversation to make that happen? Who’s the “manager” for hack.aragon?

That seems more than reasonable. I’m astonished that it’s not a requirement for teams that get funded. There’s no point in building amazing applications if no one can use them lol

Most of it is getting moved to the archive section because it’s so far out of date it is actually not that useful. Nonetheless I am an information hoarder so it will be kept online, just moved to a less conspicuous location (the archives).

@luis or @gabi would know better than I do about this.

The default apps are all well documented, and in fact the documentation is accessible directly in each app by clicking the question mark in the corner. The work in progress apps are not so well documented, which is to be expected since they are… well… works in progress, and it’d be a waste of time to fully document something that is not yet in a finalized state. If there’s a specific app that you’d like to see documented I encourage you to reach out to the dev directly and make your request to them. In the mean time, it would be worth tracking this idea about putting documentation directly in the App Center listing as an issue in the Aragon client repo. I have created this issue here.

Yes! And this is why I’m so adamant about documentation and dev ux, because I know what’s possible and want to see best practices established across the ecosystem

Obviously. This is why I started this thread: community documentation for more obscure edge cases or things in development would greatly enhance the dev ux for early adopters and hackers

I see what you’re saying. I think you could make a PR to the repos of the specific apps you’d like to see documented and drop a markdown file there, as a stopgap until we have established how/if we want to put “community” docs in the hack.aragon.org site.

Yes, I could do lots of things. I’m busy af tho. There’s no incentive for me to say no to other things in order to contribute altruistically to Aragon community documentation. Thus the other half of this conversation: incentives for community contributions.

I’m busy too yet I contribute documentation to open source projects quite often with no expectation of remuneration. If you want documentation ahead of a developer’s planned schedule, you should expect to have to do it yourself. If you want payment for doing it, you could put a donation address in the docs or request funds from the community up front before writing the docs (like crowdfunding). All of this is possible today with no extra tooling necessary. In other words: what are you waiting for? :wink:

Good for you. The whole point of blockchains and tokens is that cryptoeconomic mechanisms align incentives in a positive sum way for all parties involved. This is ARAGON. We are creating DAOs that allow communities to manage governance and fundraising in ways that are BETTER than before.

I’m waiting for a clear and thoughtful incentive mechanism that shows that the Aragon community gives a shit about it’s non core contributors.Even just a signal in that direction would be enough. As is, just saying “do it” feels like you don’t care, don’t value community contributions, and don’t understand incentives around real world constraints like the opportunity cost of time.

Personally, I find it uncomfortable asking for money and would never put ‘donation’ link anywhere :sweat_smile:. Paid or not I always contribute as much as I can because I love the project and am fully signed up to the vision.

However, I do see merit in having a system that rewards community contribution in ANT

  • rewarding contributors with small amounts would increase community participation.
  • it would give contributors a feeling of ownership, recognition and appreciation
  • I also think it would boost the participation in the AGPs which is a metric I think we should be optimising for (probably not by much but it’s a step in the right direction)

Also experimenting with DAO initiatives like seems like something we should be supporting, especially when the cost very little and potentially have a big upside

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If the only augmentation being requested here is that CFDAO proposals get paid ANT instead of / in addition to DAI then I recommend interested parties write an AGP to augment CFDAO’s funding accordingly. Also, as soon as Open Enterprise is ready on mainnet we can begin experimenting with those tools as well.

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:100: ANT is a governance token. Giving the community a stake in governance, and thus encouraging them to vote, is essential for the community.

Yeah, I mean… isn’t that the point of this forum? DAO research and community development?

Dawg… how can I make this more clear? This thread is about 2 things:

  • a place for community contributions to documentation and tutorials
  • incentives and rewards for people who contribute to community documentation

There is currently no dedicated place for this, esp since dev stuff is being removed from the wiki. There is also no mechanism to encourage or reward contributions beyond just asking for money. Aragon needs to step up it’s game when it comes to dogfooding Aragon to support it’s own community.

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The current process does not meet my needs. That’s why I created this thread in the first place! hack.aragon.org does not have a community contributions section , the wiki is losing it’s developer section, and the CFDAO is not organized and too clunky for small things like creating a how-to guide for an app or installation on an OS. Proposals to improve this are:

  • create a community section on hack.aragon
  • create a CFDAO section on the forum (with a bug bounty like thread establishing norms/expectations for community documentation contributions)

If you disagree with those ideas that’s fine. The way you’re replying tho it feels like you’re trying to close a GitHub issue rather than have a conversation. This thread for the community to talk and the ideas and brainstorm, not to just shut people down because you disagree with them.

wow such a long discussion. I am always getting bit tired if i see so much written stuff haha
I just wanted to share an idea i heard at epiccentre. https://epicenter.tv/episode/302/
They discuss ETH HUB. https://ethhub.io/ I would love to see something similar just for aragon. I don’t like the overview that much I think this can be better but I like the idea of an AragonHUB

for me I like mock ups even if they are very simple. a picture says more then 1000 words or so? :wink:

You’re right. I was a bit miffed by your comment implying that the Aragon community doesn’t care about contributors, which I disagree with but I understand your frustration. There’s certainly work to do on both the documentation and incentives front. We have some infrastructure in place, but as you point out, it might not be serving everyone as well as it could be. Thank you for starting this discussion!

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Hey. So… after some reflection it’s dawned on me that I was being a bit of an asshat here. I’m quite salty when it comes to “community rewards” type things. It’s my biggest frustration with open source and humanity in general. I’m also salty about the AGP snafu and I think that spilled over here too.


Anyways, you were right in that it’s not that hard to create an Issue or submit a PR to hack.aragon. The frustrating part is that some people get paid to do that stuff, but some people don’t. There needs to be better mechanisms to reward and recognize community contributions. We’re starting work on that via the CRDAO. Hopefully that’s a step in the right direction to incentivize and recognize contributions to things like docs, AGPs, and other things that are essential to the community, but don’t fit nicely into bounties or salaried positions. If you have any other ideas on things that would help in this direction that would be awesome.

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